Curse

Piippo · Dec 29, 2010, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Still going back to the Primary Profession change: Swift Honorclaw also changed from Necromancer to Warrior.

draxynnic · Dec 30, 2010, 08:17 AM // 08:17

While we're at it, Lazarus changes from Necromancer to Elementalist.

Mind you, in some of these cases their apparent profession may actually be their secondary profession.

EDIT: One thought that struck me last night is that, while some might say it's just mechanics, our characters can only change secondary professions until after they Ascend (yes, I know the Nightfall ascension isn't much of a big deal), implying that secondary profession changing may be a function of achieving Ascension for the Chosen. Since we already have a distinction between Chosen and non-Chosen in the general populace, it's possible that Thackeray might happen to be a kind of "super-Chosen" that can change primary professions.

A11Eur0 · Feb 05, 2011, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Wow...people are taking this way too seriously. If it were "going against the GW mechanics", you'd be able to choose his primary as either ranger or paragon at will. You can't. He was never a hero RANGER, he was always a HERO PARAGON...whether he was a ranger or not before he became a HERO. Lore doesn't prevent someone from changing professions. Mechanics do. And the mechanics have not changed. The only reason YOU can change secondaries is because you have learned skills for that other profession. You were trained from the start as your primary profession...you come into the game with some basic training already. If changing secondaries was only for "chosen", then you would have to choose your secondary profession immediately on character creation, instead of learning different skills for all the different profs. Your BASIC training determines your primary attribute...it's your strongest field. You have ALWAYS trained in that primary profession. You can later on train for a secondary profession after you've essentially "mastered" your primary (ascension).

Also, Konig: Your "almost all" statement is false. Only five of the afflicted bosses in the game were students which have changed professions. Every change you actually see take place in the game, during Zen Daijun or vizunah square, are straight changes.

draxynnic · Feb 07, 2011, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Partially correct. Simply being Chosen isn't sufficient to change profession. It provides the potential, but you need to Ascend to unlock that potential. However, only Chosen can Ascend.

However, the process of ascension is nothing to do with mastering your profession. There are NPCs that I'm pretty sure aren't ascended are more powerful in their profession than a PC who's only just ascended.

Frozen_Chips · Mar 05, 2011, 08:07 AM // 08:07

To second Yitjuan’s post, I’m not really sure why lore comes in to it – after all, they’re only professions, and there’s nothing supernatural about changing your career. Sure it’s a big deal, and that kind of radical life change usually requires some catalyst, but Keiran’s story ticks all the boxes. If Master Engineer Jakumba decided to give up his old job and become a travelling lawyer (just to use a random and slightly silly GW example), it seems unlikely that there’d be any allegations of breaching lore. The only reason Keiran’s stirred up so much fuss is because it’s one of the inviolable PC professions that have been altered.

The only Rule (with a capital R) against changing professions is the one imposed by game mechanics, not lore.

Nilator · Mar 07, 2011, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Well he had to change professions to be a paragon to chain Incoming and Fall back so he could outrun his pursuers.

distilledwill · Mar 10, 2011, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Why do people keep bringing mechanics into it? The mechanics mean absolutely nothing when it comes to lore. As Konig has said about 20 times.

The simple fact is the Keiran went from being a Ranger to a Paragon because during his time in the war he grew some balls, stood up to his woman and learned to be a leader.

Notorious Bob · Mar 10, 2011, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Why do people keep bringing mechanics into it? The mechanics mean absolutely nothing when it comes to lore. As Konig has said about 20 times.

It's neither about lore or mechanics - it's about half-arsed kludges just to suit a game devs whim.

Should Keiran have been able to change primary class without divine intervention - no. Every player who has played through has achieved a similar if not greater level of "leadership" and a bunch of other stuff - just how many Gods have we killed?

If Keiran is now a Paragon, then his weapon "skills" are all Spear based - that being the case, him having a bow is pointless, he might as well use harsh language at his enemies.

Maybe the whole conversion process should have had Gwen present him a new spangly spear with a ribbon on it.

distilledwill · Mar 10, 2011, 01:37 PM // 13:37

*facepalm*

Quote:

Should Keiran have been able to change primary class without divine intervention

YES

Keiran is not subject to the same rules that we are as players.

[edit] Speaking of Gwen - by your rules, she should never have been able to grow from the little girl we met in Ascalon to the woman we met in the far Shiverpeaks. I know my character doesn't look any older than he did 5 years ago. Ageing isn't an ability given to our characters, so it shouldn't be allowed for the NPCs either.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 10, 2011, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I just find it ironic that he was a Ranger that became a Paragon, who uses Warrior emotes, and fell in love with a Mesmer.

thedukesd · Mar 11, 2011, 03:16 PM // 15:16

The awful truth is that they didn't had to many options for the new hero during hearts, i only see 2 options:
- Miku -> assassin hero
- Keiran -> 4th ranger hero

So because they didn't wanted to add a 4th ranger hero and maybe cause people don't really use assassins as hero (the heros don't really use the dagger chain decent) they chosed to add a 3rd paragon hero changing Keiran from ranger to paragon. Why Keiran comes with a bow and not spear and shield is imposible to explain (paragon with bow is kinda fail).

At the point hearts was released I tought that Miku might be keeped for WoC so we can get the 3th assasin hero during WoC. But now after Embark update I doubt we will get a new hero in WoC (mainly cause adding a new free hero will be a market decision against mercenary slots).

Khomet Si Netjer · Mar 11, 2011, 03:22 PM // 15:22

General Morgahn is another paragon who uses warrior emotes and worships a mesmer deity... hmmmmmm. There may be a trend here.

Notorious Bob · Mar 11, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

*facepalm*

[edit] Speaking of Gwen - by your rules, she should never have been able to grow from the little girl we met in Ascalon to the woman we met in the far Shiverpeaks. I know my character doesn't look any older than he did 5 years ago. Ageing isn't an ability given to our characters, so it shouldn't be allowed for the NPCs either.

\Facepalm/ indeed - what a daft response.

Red_Dragon56 · Mar 30, 2011, 02:24 AM // 02:24

We all know Logan is a guardian, which focuses around team-based protections and helping allies.

Seems paragonish to me. Maybe it's genetic.

Rites · Mar 30, 2011, 07:16 AM // 07:16

NPCs are not held to the binding rules that we players are stuck by.

granted the "lore" might seem off to immature minds when a ranger becomes a paragon, but this only proves that the immature mind that cannot understand the concept of evolving just needs to grow up some more

Steps_Descending · Mar 30, 2011, 05:26 PM // 17:26

2 words : storytelling device.

One way to show caracter growth in a book is by a change in attitude. That doesn't translate in a game of mecanics with-out personnal storytelling.
The game version is by changing playstyle, and since you can cusotmize the whole bar, the only way is either by giving him a fixed skill bar, PvE only skills (customized for him) or changing his class.

Canthafan 28 · Dec 26, 2014, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Have you all forgotten Razah from NF? He's A rit hero who can Change Primary professions, however he's not a human in lore so that is still a strike against Keiran's Class Change. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Rotscale's Bow(Kieran) an optional weapon for Keiran in that you have to choose to kill Rotscale in HotN?

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 26, 2014, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Razah couldn't (due to technical constraints) change his primary profession until a month after this thread, which is why he isn't mentioned. As you say though, given he isn't human there is no reason why you'd measure him against the same constraints.

Keiran's rotscale skin bow is his default weapon when you gain him as a hero. Any interaction with Rotscale is irrelevant.